Jump to content
Emperor G_D

Making An Oral Suspension

Recommended Posts

36 minutes ago, oompaloompa said:

is it ok to bump this thread as i need some guidance?wanted to ask prior to doing so

 

Hmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, oompaloompa said:

is it ok to bump this thread as i need some guidance?wanted to ask prior to doing so

Why not? I don't think we attack people for resurrecting old threads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Sanction said:

Why not? I don't think we attack people for resurrecting old threads.

Thank you for the reply. Just at work, I will compose a post shortly. Again thank you for the reply 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your cabergoline is insoluble in water but is soluble in ethanol.

 

So your first stop is going to be a liquor store to get yourself the strongest white liquor you can put your hands on...probably Everclear or Bacardi 151 unless you live someplace where they sell Everclear 190 proof. 

 

You will also need a dark-colored glass bottle that can hold at least 100ml with a calibrated 1ml dropper like these.

 

Next you are going to need an accurate scale so that you can measure out exactly 25mg of your cabergoline powder.

 

The next step is to mix this in 100ml of 190 proof Everclear and voila, you will now have a 0.25mg/ml oral solution, or at least one that is very close to that because your solvent is 95% ethanol....if you can't get your hands on Everclear 190 and have to use 151, I'll need a little help from the chemists in the house to understand what, if any, impact using a solvent that is only 75% ethanol will have...

 

You could also make a suspension out of something thick like glycerin. The caber won't dissolve but if you again mix 25mg of caber in 100ml of glycerin and shake the heck out of it to ensure that the caber is uniformly distributed before you use it, 1ml should contain approximately 0.25mg of caber.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why it would.  151 rum is sold for consumption so I see no reason you should be concerned as long as it will adequately dissolve your compound of interest at the concentration you want.  And if it's not good enough to dissolve it and there's no other option, you should probably just use some kind of safe for consumption PEG or like you said, glycerin to make a suspension.

 

So yeah, you're right.  I don't feel like looking up the solubility but my guess is that if it's soluble enough at 95% ethanol, it's probably also gonna be soluble enough at 75% to be no issue.  As long as you're not stuck buying grocery store 20% "vodka" you should be all right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duh. I was overthinking the concentration of the alcohol and I should have looked up how soluble it was in ethanol....it's 45mg/ml so dissolving 25mg in 100ml of even run-of-the-mill 80 proof vodka shouldn't be a problem.

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

15480787611373936808265588406212.thumb.jpg.b5b9993742a2fa335128e1e0b9b04554.jpg

On 1/19/2019 at 12:56 PM, STENDEC said:

Your cabergoline is insoluble in water but is soluble in ethanol.

 

So your first stop is going to be a liquor store to get yourself the strongest white liquor you can put your hands on...probably Everclear or Bacardi 151 unless you live someplace where they sell Everclear 190 proof. 

 

You will also need a dark-colored glass bottle that can hold at least 100ml with a calibrated 1ml dropper like these.

 

Next you are going to need an accurate scale so that you can measure out exactly 25mg of your cabergoline powder.

 

The next step is to mix this in 100ml of 190 proof Everclear and voila, you will now have a 0.25mg/ml oral solution, or at least one that is very close to that because your solvent is 95% ethanol....if you can't get your hands on Everclear 190 and have to use 151, I'll need a little help from the chemists in the house to understand what, if any, impact using a solvent that is only 75% ethanol will have...

 

You could also make a suspension out of something thick like glycerin. The caber won't dissolve but if you again mix 25mg of caber in 100ml of glycerin and shake the heck out of it to ensure that the caber is uniformly distributed before you use it, 1ml should contain approximately 0.25mg of caber.

 

 

 

 

Good Morning sir, apologies for the late reply. We had a horrible snow storm on the east coast and then the Inlaws furnace broke down. Needless to say it was a busy weekend lol. 

I want to thank everyone for the replies first of all. I am a tad noob at oral suspensions but I prefer them as I feel more safe doing a suspension vs caps that can be unevenly dosed. I will list items I have to use to create a suspension. I do have questions on how to do this due to the fact that there are soooo many conflicting "recipes" online. That being said below is items I have access to. Money is not the issue, it's where about creating an evenly dosed item. 

I have 

Pg 80

Peg 600

Ba

Bb

Ethyl oleate 

Mct oil

95% RA (can I use this)? 

P. S I do home brews for oil if anyone needs help. Even though you all seem insanely smart. This board is like a hidden gem 

15480787611373936808265588406212.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/20/2019 at 7:46 AM, STENDEC said:

 

Bump for @Burton or @Growth Factor

I'm going to go with what Burton said, but add that solutions chemistry is actually quite an esoteric field and is not as simple and wieldy as many might think it out to be.

 

Where I'm going with this is in the future, if you're trying to prepare a solution and you're uncertain about a compound's solubility, it's best to just look up a solubility table and work with exactly the same solvent as listed in the literature. 

 

I think you're lucky your compound is soluble in ethanol. It's generally a very good thing to have a compound completely soluble in water or ethanol, and it's for human consumption in a non-research setting, because of how ethanol works in water (it's miscible). The percent might not make a big deal here. But if you were working with a compound that is insoluble in water or ethanol but soluble in an organic solvent (like oils, or ethers, or DMF), you could very easily be facing a problem if you went off book.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, oompaloompa said:

15480787611373936808265588406212.thumb.jpg.b5b9993742a2fa335128e1e0b9b04554.jpg

Good Morning sir, apologies for the late reply. We had a horrible snow storm on the east coast and then the Inlaws furnace broke down. Needless to say it was a busy weekend lol. 

I want to thank everyone for the replies first of all. I am a tad noob at oral suspensions but I prefer them as I feel more safe doing a suspension vs caps that can be unevenly dosed. I will list items I have to use to create a suspension. I do have questions on how to do this due to the fact that there are soooo many conflicting "recipes" online. That being said below is items I have access to. Money is not the issue, it's where about creating an evenly dosed item. 

I have 

Pg 80

Peg 600

Ba

Bb

Ethyl oleate 

Mct oil

95% RA (can I use this)? 

P. S I do home brews for oil if anyone needs help. Even though you all seem insanely smart. This board is like a hidden gem 

15480787611373936808265588406212.jpg

5

 

DO NOT use this reagent alcohol.

 

I looked up the data sheet/certificate of analysis and it's only 90% ethanol and 5% methanol and 5% isopropyl alcohol.  

 

Methanol and IPA will both kill you.

 

If things go well, it'll maybe just blind you or give you brain damage.

 

Here's the full composition breakdown as per Fisher's SDS.  It's not exact because they just pour a bunch of shit together for reagent grade but it's close enough:

 

Component CAS-No Weight %

Isopropyl alcohol 67-63-0 5-7

Ethyl alcohol 64-17-5 85-90

Methyl alcohol 67-56-1 3-5

Water 7732-18-5 5-7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Growth Factor said:

I'm going to go with what Burton said, but add that solutions chemistry is actually quite an esoteric field and is not as simple and wieldy as many might think it out to be.

 

Where I'm going with this is in the future, if you're trying to prepare a solution and you're uncertain about a compound's solubility, it's best to just look up a solubility table and work with exactly the same solvent as listed in the literature. 

 

I think you're lucky your compound is soluble in ethanol. It's generally a very good thing to have a compound completely soluble in water or ethanol, and it's for human consumption in a non-research setting, because of how ethanol works in water (it's miscible). The percent might not make a big deal here. But if you were working with a compound that is insoluble in water or ethanol but soluble in an organic solvent (like oils, or ethers, or DMF), you could very easily be facing a problem if you went off book.  

thank you sir, i did some prior research and read caber was not soluble in water. ive never done ethanol or peg but from reading,lot of people have used it. Apprently with using peg 600,your concoction stays suspended and you can use less ethanol. Am i wrong here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cabler is soluble in ethanol 45mg/ml...basic 80 proof vodka will work just fine and is completely non-toxic at ml doses. Mix it up the way I suggested and you will have a nice, easy to use solution that provides 0.25mg of cabergoline in every ml of solution...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, STENDEC said:

Cabler is soluble in ethanol 45mg/ml...basic 80 proof vodka will work just fine and is completely non-toxic at ml doses. Mix it up the way I suggested and you will have a nice, easy to use solution that provides 0.25mg of cabergoline in every ml of solution...

 

This would be my first time doing this. Could you clarify steps please. 

I wish to dilute all 1 gram of the caber and wish to put it in 30ml dropper bottles. I already own those. 

So simply put 1 gram of caber and ethanol(how much)? Do I need to heat it to dissolve? Or simply add and stir? Sorry I don't want to make any mistakes as caber is extremely expensive. This would last me a very long time and I'm ok with that. Apologies for all the questions 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could someone check my math?

Given that 1ml of 95% alcohol will dissolve 45 mg caber

then assume solubility using 40% alcohol vodka is linearly less than 95% ethanol,

then 1 ml would take 18 mg caber (0.4 * 45 mg)

A gram of caber would go into solution with 56 ml vodka (1000 ml/18mg)

A single 0.25 mg dose would be .014 ml vodka, which is less than a drop and not practical

 

From the other direction:

1g caber = 4000 doses (0.25 mg each)

If you want to take:

1 ml vodka per dose then dissolve the caber in 4000 ml or 4 liters vodka.

0.5 ml per dose then dissolve in 2 liters = 66 dropper bottles (assuming 30ml per bottle)

0.25  ml per dose (5 drops) = 1 liter vodka = 33 dropper bottles

 

Since none of us have tried it, you will have to experiment on a smaller quantity or just go for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Go back and read the whole thread. Carefully.

 

In addition to the things you already own, you will need a good scale.

 

Dissolve exactly 25mg of the cabergoline into exactly 100ml of vodka. Save the remaining cabergoline powder for another day.

 

This will give you a 0.25mg/ml solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Sanction said:

ould someone check my math?

Given that 1ml of 95% alcohol will dissolve 45 mg caber

then assume solubility using 40% alcohol vodka is linearly less than 95% ethanol,

then 1 ml would take 18 mg caber (0.4 * 45 mg)

A gram of caber would go into solution with 56 ml vodka (1000 ml/18mg)

A single 0.25 mg dose would be .014 ml vodka, which is less than a drop and not practical

 

Your math is correct but we're not interested in making a saturated solution of cabergoline in ethanol....we want a conveniently-dosed solution so we are going to dissolve far less caber into the solvent than it could theoretically hold.

 

Given that a typical dosing scheme of cabergoline in 0.25mg several times a week, a gram of powder is literally a lifetime supply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just want to reiterate the importance of a very good scale. It looks like you are a) not reading the advice folks have posted and b) looking for short cuts. This is both easy and exacting. Don't fuck around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not in a giving full directions kind of mood but my general policy (and Ben's apparently) for this is something like "make 1 mL = whatever dose you want it to be so the dosing is easy".

 

For example, when I make test, or tren or eq or whatever, I make 1 mL of it be the dose I am gonna inject.  With test, I take 250 mg 2x/weekly so 1 mL = 250 mg.

 

I'm really here to just agree with Ras so this is my input on that.

 

You could buy a 3 digit balance on eBay.  You probably won't get 25 mg on the dot but you'll end up with probably between 24 and 26, which is certainly close enough.  And if you do buy one of those, what you're looking for on the readout is 0.025, not 0.25.  I, however, will state that I have no idea how accurate these things are.  I would assume they're good enough since jewelers seem to trust them.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LCD-Pocket-Mini-Digital-Gold-Jewellery-Weighing-Scales-0-001g-to-50-Grams/222910029497?epid=9017541980&hash=item33e6791eb9:g:JHEAAOSwkxRaxGuc:rk:1:pf:0

 

You could buy a 4 digit scale but then the price jumps up to ~400 dollars.

 

Also, get yourself a microspatula.  Makes it much easier to weigh things out, especially at this scale.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FLEXIBLE-MICROSPATULA-8/330351917144?hash=item4cea823858:g:ir4AAOSwstxVEcI2:sc:USPSFirstClass!43214!US!-1:rk:2:pf:0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ras said:

I just want to reiterate the importance of a very good scale. It looks like you are a) not reading the advice folks have posted and b) looking for short cuts. This is both easy and exacting. Don't fuck around.

i didnt say anything,was just stating what i had and what i thought would be easier,as to make everyones life easier here and not eat your heads. im all ears and wish to learn and implement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, oompaloompa said:

i didnt say anything,was just stating what i had and what i thought would be easier,as to make everyones life easier here and not eat your heads. im all ears and wish to learn and implement

I hope you understand that my 'don't fuck around' is risk management advice, not an insult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...