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The Power of Androgens

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The Power of Androgens

 

We've seen this study before but it is one of my favorites because it so clearly demonstrates the power of androgens.

 

In this study there were four groups, placebo+couch, testosterone+couch, placebo+resistance exercise and testosterone+resistance exercise.

 

The interesting thing to me is that the guys sitting on the couch who got test injections developed larger muscles and almost as much strength as the guys who busted ass for 10 weeks but got saline injections.

 

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101

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This is another good study to highlight the power of androgens, especially in older men. These guys were specifically told not to engage in any exercise during the trial and even on a fairly modest dose of exogenous T, enough to just put them at high-normal levels, they lost 5lbs of fat and gained about the same amount of muscle over 20wks...

 

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Feb;90(2):678-88. Epub 2004 Nov 23.

Older men are as responsive as young men to the anabolic effects of graded doses of testosterone on the skeletal muscle.

Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Mac RP, Lee M, Yarasheski KE, Sinha-Hikim I, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Magliano L, Storer TW.

Source

 

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, University of California, Los Angeles, CA 90059, USA. sbhasin@ucla.edu

Abstract

 

Although testosterone levels and muscle mass decline with age, many older men have serum testosterone level in the normal range, leading to speculation about whether older men are less sensitive to testosterone. We determined the responsiveness of androgen-dependent outcomes to graded testosterone doses in older men and compared it to that in young men. The participants in this randomized, double-blind trial were 60 ambulatory, healthy, older men, 60-75 yr of age, who had normal serum testosterone levels. Their responses to graded doses of testosterone were compared with previous data in 61 men, 19-35 yr old. The participants received a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production and 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg testosterone enanthate weekly for 20 wk. Fat-free mass, fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, mood, visuospatial cognition, hormone levels, and safety measures were evaluated before, during, and after treatment. Of 60 older men who were randomized, 52 completed the study. After adjusting for testosterone dose, changes in serum total testosterone (change, -6.8, -1.9, +16.1, +49.5, and +101.9 nmol/liter at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg/wk, respectively) and hemoglobin (change, -3.6, +9.9, +20.9, +12.6, and +29.4 g/liter at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg/wk, respectively) levels were dose-related in older men and significantly greater in older men than young men (each P

 

PMID: 15562020

 

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/90/2/678.long

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The Power of Androgens

 

We've seen this study before but it is one of my favorites because it so clearly demonstrates the power of androgens.

 

In this study there were four groups, placebo+couch, testosterone+couch, placebo+resistance exercise and testosterone+resistance exercise.

 

The interesting thing to me is that the guys sitting on the couch who got test injections developed larger muscles and almost as much strength as the guys who busted ass for 10 weeks but got saline injections.

 

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101

+1. Probably the study I have cited the most in conversations.

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here is the official follow up on the study with which Benson started this thread out:

Effect of testosterone supplementation with and without a dual 5α-reductase inhibitor on fat-free mass in men with suppressed testosterone production: a randomized controlled trial.

Bhasin S, Travison TG, Storer TW, Lakshman K, Kaushik M, Mazer NA, Ngyuen AH, Davda MN, Jara H, Aakil A, Anderson S, Knapp PE, Hanka S, Mohammed N, Daou P, Miciek R, Ulloor J, Zhang A, Brooks B, Orwoll K, Hede-Brierley L, Eder R, Elmi A, Bhasin G, Collins L, Singh R, Basaria S.

Source

 

Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine and Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany St, Boston, MA 02118, USA. bhasin@bu.edu

Abstract

CONTEXT:

 

Steroid 5α-reductase inhibitors are used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia and androgenic alopecia, but the role of 5α-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in mediating testosterone's effects on muscle, sexual function, erythropoiesis, and other androgen-dependent processes remains poorly understood.

OBJECTIVE:

 

To determine whether testosterone's effects on muscle mass, strength, sexual function, hematocrit level, prostate volume, sebum production, and lipid levels are attenuated when its conversion to DHT is blocked by dutasteride (an inhibitor of 5α-reductase type 1 and 2).

DESIGN, SETTING, AND PATIENTS:

 

The 5α-Reductase Trial was a randomized controlled trial of healthy men aged 18 to 50 years comparing placebo plus testosterone enthanate with dutasteride plus testosterone enanthate from May 2005 through June 2010.

INTERVENTIONS:

 

Eight treatment groups received 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate for 20 weeks plus placebo (4 groups) or 2.5 mg/d of dutasteride (4 groups).

MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

 

The primary outcome was change in fat-free mass; secondary outcomes: changes in fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, prostate volume, sebum production, and hematocrit and lipid levels.

RESULTS:

 

A total of 139 men were randomized; 102 completed the 20-week intervention. Men assigned to dutasteride were similar at baseline to those assigned to placebo. The mean fat-free mass gained by the dutasteride groups was 0.6 kg (95% CI, -0.1 to 1.2 kg) when receiving 50 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate, 2.6 kg (95% CI, 0.9 to 4.3 kg) for 125 mg/wk, 5.8 kg (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.9 kg) for 300 mg/wk, and 7.1 kg (95% CI, 6.0 to 8.2 kg) for 600 mg/wk. The mean fat-free mass gained by the placebo groups was 0.8 kg (95% CI, -0.1 to 1.7 kg) when receiving 50 mg/wk of testosterone enanthate, 3.5 kg (95% CI, 2.1 to 4.8 kg) for 125 mg/wk, 5.7 kg (95% CI, 4.8 to 6.5 kg) for 300 mg/wk, and 8.1 kg (95% CI, 6.7 to 9.5 kg) for 600 mg/wk. The dose-adjusted differences between the dutasteride and placebo groups for fat-free mass were not significant (P = .18). Changes in fat mass, muscle strength, sexual function, prostate volume, sebum production, and hematocrit and lipid levels did not differ between groups.

CONCLUSION:

 

Changes in fat-free mass in response to graded testosterone doses did not differ in men in whom DHT was suppressed by dutasteride from those treated with placebo, indicating that conversion of testosterone to DHT is not essential for mediating its anabolic effects on muscle.

TRIAL REGISTRATION:

 

clinicaltrials.gov Identifier: NCT00493987.

 

+ my mini-summary at the suppversity: http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/03/dustasteride-doesnt-hamper-mass.html

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So this is the power of androgens for me.

 

Over 12 weeks on a very modest dose (20-30mg/day) of the quasi-legal androgen epistane I have become leaner and more muscular than I have been in a long time, probably since sophomore year in college. I've not measured my waist but all of my pants are all nearly falling off me if I don't wear a belt...my delts and traps, on the other hand, are big and defined in a way they have never been...even my jaw looks more square...my pecs still suck but that is life apparently...

 

My recovery has been nearly magical and I've been able to add boxing two days a week to two days of fairly intense strongman workouts without skipping a beat really...a significant ankle tendon subluxation has healed quickly and without much residual disability.

 

And this all happened while I have had perhaps the worst dietary control that I have had in a decade...I am consuming a whopping 25g of supplemental protein a day aside from what I am getting from whole foods and otherwise pretty much eating whatever I damn well please...and that includes stuff like occasional pizza, ice cream, crackers, etc. While I've not actually tracked things, I feel like I have been inhaling food, especially after boxing...

 

End of story: I feel sort of cheated. I was unable to make these changes even with super tight dietary control and much more calculated lifting even with supplemental protein, creatine, etc.

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The interesting thing to me is that the guys sitting on the couch who got test injections developed larger muscles and almost as much strength as the guys who busted ass for 10 weeks but got saline injections.

 

That sort of supports my view that unless you plan to use them almost non stop (which many of you do) they are probably far more useful in jump starting gains in an untrained individual than busting through plateaus which works but doesn't seem to last.

 

I would expect the 'untrained' individual here would probably be best served by a few weeks of training to get the super easy gains first. Think, couch potato > boot camp > AAS

 

At the very least you'd want enough prior experience in the gym that you aren't fumbling around and trying to figure out what to do with the weight while your AAS induced gains atrophy.

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I have always said that training on AAS makes my body respond to exercise like it should, and basically negates any phenotypic hurdles that may be impassable.

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I have always said that training on AAS makes my body respond to exercise like it should' date=' and basically negates any phenotypic hurdles that may be impassable.[/quote]

 

 

Amen brother!

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I have always said that training on AAS makes my body respond to exercise like it should' date=' and basically negates any phenotypic hurdles that may be impassable.[/quote']

LOL. Is this not a matter of expectation though?

 

I trained for quite some time before getting into androgen cycles, and I am glad I did, in some ways, as it forced me to learn how to improve my training, food, and sleep. There is a part of me that wished that one of the mad scientists around me when I was growing up was a reckless endocrinologist that could have augmented me in my formative years. I have always wondered what would have happened to my development if I was juiced (and weight trained) peri-adrenarche and onwards.

 

I have taken some extended periods off juice too and I can see how (although I do not agree) that it is not worth training without - the lowering of androgen levels can be a little depressing.

 

That said, I do think it is important for me to see juice as an additional boost rather than the norm, as one never knows when one has to come off the juice eg( injury, illness, etc ) and the idea of loosing my willpower when my chips are down is something that I find quite scary tbh.

 

J

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J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1993 Oct;77(4):1028-32.

Body composition and muscle strength in healthy men receiving testosterone enanthate for contraception.

Young NR, Baker HW, Liu G, Seeman E.

Source

University of Melbourne, Department of Endocrinology, Austin Hospital, Victoria, Australia.

 

Abstract

To determine the effect of androgens on body composition and muscle strength, we measured fat-free mass (kg), fat mass (kg), and bone density (g/cm2) by dual x-ray absorptiometry, and muscle strength (Newton meters) by dynamometry in a controlled, prospective study involving 13 non athletic men receiving testosterone enanthate 200 mg/week in for 6 months and 8 healthy controls. Biochemical markers of bone turnover were measured in the treated subjects at baseline and 6 months. In the treated subjects at 6 months, fat-free mass (mean +/- SEM) increased by 9.6 +/- 1.0% (P

 

PMID: 8408450

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You have to note the date. 1993 was the year after T got scheduled by Congress.

 

What makes their comments even more silly is that these were sedentary men, not doing any training and they still added 10% LBM and dropped over 15% BF in six months...

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You have to note the date. 1993 was the year after T got scheduled by Congress.

 

What makes their comments even more silly is that these were sedentary men, not doing any training and they still added 10% LBM and dropped over 15% BF in six months...

 

Pretty astounding results. Sign me up!

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I think if I used half that amount I'd still get more out of my training than I do now.

 

This is why I am so frustrated that androgens have been so vilified.

 

sent from my droid using Tapatalk2

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70mg/wk puts me just below midrange. Receptor density I guess. I just dont like how people here sometimes act like they aren't taking AAS, then 6 weeks later say, "oh, I was taking a little bit of epistane the last few days then decided to drop it." Fuckers lol Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Tapatalk 2

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End of story: I feel sort of cheated. I was unable to make these changes even with super tight dietary control and much more calculated lifting even with supplemental protein, creatine, etc.

 

I had this realization about 7 years ago. I haven't looked back since. I hesitate giving advice to anyone anymore because what works for me is not going to work for someone NOT on some kind of PED. Other than that, my only reason for not admitting it at times is that I didn't want to risk losing my job (i was a personal trainer making good money and the owner would have taken issue with it). Now I just tell people I'm on HRT and I feel pretty comfortable saying it.

 

I wasn't ever really disappointed or disillusioned though. I knew back in my early 20's that something was amiss when I took a half-assed dbol cycle for two months and transformed dramatically. The only frustration I have ever experienced was the up and down, yo-yo effect of trying to cycle. Was the biggest waste for me.

 

My next big aha moment came when I found GH. That was really where the magic began. In terms of body composition, even 250mg of Test Enanthate and 2 ius of GH a day, within 6 months, will completely redefine.

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I just dont like how people here sometimes act like they aren't taking AAS, then 6 weeks later say, "oh, I was taking a little bit of epistane the last few days then decided to drop it."

 

 

People do that HERE? I thought we were all pretty straightforward about our gear use? I have no qualms admitting it, that's for sure...

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People do that HERE? I thought we were all pretty straightforward about our gear use? I have no qualms admitting it' date=' that's for sure...[/quote']

 

I will say this: you and mitosis have never been afraid to disclose anything. A friend of mine on here and I agree, this transparency is good for trust here, and can help us all gain more knowledge from realistic use and training

 

Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Tapatalk 2

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My next big aha moment came when I found GH. That was really where the magic began. In terms of body composition, even 250mg of Test Enanthate and 2 ius of GH a day, within 6 months, will completely redefine.

 

What do you think about peptides? I have been considering ghrp2 + grf-129 for improved fat loss/body comp.

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Growth hormone releasing peptide 2 has several years of data showing its hunger-promoting and GH elevating properties - even when used long-term..depending on how you use it etc...I think most would consider its fat-loss effects to be less than that of IGF-1, and of course with much more appetite increase...I don't know enough about "grf-129" to comment... (I'm sure all this is not news to you Judo)

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People do that HERE? I thought we were all pretty straightforward about our gear use? I have no qualms admitting it' date=' that's for sure...[/quote']

 

Quote

I've also been pretty clear about my use I think.

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I will say this: you and mitosis have never been afraid to disclose anything. A friend of mine on here and I agree, this transparency is good for trust here, and can help us all gain more knowledge from realistic use and training

 

Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Tapatalk 2

 

I have no qualms about being open. Occasionally, I forget to mention it and then 2 weeks later I'm left trying to remember when I started my regimen.

 

As of now, I'm on one shot of androgel and ~75mg of my homebrew, daily. Probably works out to about 50mg of bioavailable test per day, if I had to guess.

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