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D-termine

Clomid Hotflashes?

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Hey y'all, after 5 years on test, I came off 5 weeks ago. Longer actually, but I ran dbol until 5 weeks ago low dose till my clomid came in and I got a bit more hCG under my belt.  Stupidly I missed week one of PCT due to not having clomid. So entering week 4 now of being on clomid, I dropped from my 40-50mg/nite down to 20mg/nite for the last 4 nights as I'm almost out.  The last 3 nights I've slept like shit, woken up with and to hot flashes and night sweats. 

 

Thankfully despite my piss poor PCT prep, my diet is 85% paleo, super high quality local produce and meat. I know my farmers, and I'm beyond lucky to eat as well-informed as I do. I'm 12 days clean off METH (exception X-mas Eve, my farewell to sleepless nights fueled by hormones and racemic compounds), no AMP for ages, and I only touch .5mg xanax here and there. And FWIW, I've been deeply entrenched in every vice you can imagine, battling each one into dust these last 6 months. I have a health coaching business that is growing and enriching every inch of my life and this steel determination to never again work another shit job after discovering the field of Functional Medicine and Health Coaching. I've been applying an elimination diet to everything from electricity to having a phone to television to my favorite of all, sleep. Nothing like the instant antidepressant effects of sleep deprivation. And yet I finally said goodbye to that thoroughly shortchanging modality this Christmas for good.

 

So despite the inherently chaotic nature of my life, I am confident enough to share these little details with you all. Even knowing I'll look back on this post 5 years from now facepalming like I do currently looking through my old posts. Truth is, despite my current pickle, I'm doing really well, have love in my life and know that even as corny as it sounds, this forum would be really proud of me. You guys all have been mentors for me growing up, and I likely wouldn't still be kicking around this rock without all the wisdom bombs you've collectively dropped for me all these years.

 

So with that said, wtf is with these hot flashes? Should I bump my clomid back up to 50mg for a little while longer? If money weren't so tight (life's hard for a pimp who's shut down his pill mill) I would just bump my dosage back up as it seems the likely culprit. I've just found money easier to part with if I have confidence in the product I'm securing, so thought I should drop in here first.

 

So thank you all, and apologies for the long winded narration. Much love!

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Hot flashes are typically caused by low estrogen.

 

My guess is you are still shut down and the clomid was standing in for your non-existent estrogen.

 

I'd suggest you try adding in 50mg of DHEA nightly and see how that feels.

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16 hours ago, STENDEC said:

Hot flashes are typically caused by low estrogen.

 

My guess is you are still shut down and the clomid was standing in for your non-existent estrogen.

 

I'd suggest you try adding in 50mg of DHEA nightly and see how that feels.

 

 

Okay, This thread is turning my idea of pct upside a bit. Always thought E rises on cycle, come off, excess E and low/no T. I can grab some DHEA though. Outside of getting labs, any good indicators my T is getting back to a good place?  No issue with catching wood, even in this post-cialis world I've been living in.

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Any issue with taking Maca? Or Cordyceps? Or Mucana? Adding all those to my turmeric based tea each day.  Nice part about health coaching, clients buy you whatever fancy shit you want from the hippey markets we travel in.

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1 hour ago, D-termine said:

 

 

Okay, This thread is turning my idea of pct upside a bit. Always thought E rises on cycle, come off, excess E and low/no T. I can grab some DHEA though. Outside of getting labs, any good indicators my T is getting back to a good place?  No issue with catching wood, even in this post-cialis world I've been living in.

 

Can't make any E without T...the only way men get estrogen is via aromatization of testosterone so if your T levels are really suppressed, your E levels will be as well.

 

Hot flashes are commonly experienced by men undergoing androgen deprivation therapy for this very reason...so my guess is, if you are experiencing hot flashes, you have not recovered yet.  The DHEA will provide you some substrate for estrogen production and should relieve the hot flashes temporarily. Another OTC option is black cohosh. Fenugreek might also help with the recovery.

 

There is no good non-lab method of assessing your testicular function although nocturnal erections are a good sign. 

 

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As someone who has taken 25 mg a day for the last couple years, I've never experienced anything like what you're describing. It sounds more like it is a result of being completely shutdown than from the clomid.

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So admittedly it's been a while since I've been at full mast testicular volume wise, but the hCG I ran for a month to month and half prior to my post cycle turned them back on.  I was using 250IU EOD.  Volume increased, and severe pain and swelling around the vas deferens which left two weeks ago.  Turns out, at least according to one study I read, that the symptoms of testicular torsion can present absent actual torsion when taking METH.  

 

Again, I realize short of labs, it's going to be hard to make any conclusions short of examining symptoms.

 

That said, low T is diagnosed based on symptoms and not ng/dL correct?

 

Yesterday some friends brought over a ton of leftover Korean BBQ (&DMT, bless their hearts) and it included a shit ton of edamame. Without looking into it, but thinking I might have low E, I ate a bunch. Broscience X10 right? I skipped my evening clomid, and only woke up once a little warm and was fine the rest of the day.  I've also been nearly asymptomatic today.  Thinking I'll skip my clomid again tonight.

 

I'm still having no issues getting it up, and the only other symptom of low T I have is not looking amazing like I did two weeks ago.  Dropped over 20lbs, and I've been able to run 10 miles at a 10mins/min average or hit my speed bag for 2 hours at a clip. This 170-180lbs range feels good.

 

Anyhow, I plan on picking up some DHEA tnite, and I will see what Sprouts has in the way of Fenugreek.  Thank you for all the responses, and apologies for the TMI. Seems I don't need amphetamines to avoid making long stories short.

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On 12/29/2017 at 1:20 PM, STENDEC said:

 

Can't make any E without T...the only way men get estrogen is via aromatization of testosterone so if your T levels are really suppressed, your E levels will be as well.

 

Hot flashes are commonly experienced by men undergoing androgen deprivation therapy for this very reason...so my guess is, if you are experiencing hot flashes, you have not recovered yet.  The DHEA will provide you some substrate for estrogen production and should relieve the hot flashes temporarily. Another OTC option is black cohosh. Fenugreek might also help with the recovery.

 

There is no good non-lab method of assessing your testicular function although nocturnal erections are a good sign. 

 

 

How about morning wood? Had that X-mas morning, but alas no other day than that. I do however have a young lady that can get me going from a few states away with merely a word..

 

As for the substrate, I've read about a pregnenolone steal that occurs when cortisol levels are high, referencing pregnenolone as the master hormone that T, E, cortisol and friends are all made from. That's built off cholesterol correct? I've at least got that base covered between animal based EPA/DHA and locally farmed, pasture raised, grass fed and finished meats.

 

What substrate does DHEA convert into if you don't mind? 

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Finally, I'm basically out of clomid, could ask my dad to write a script for me, but I kind of would like to come off of it. I know I'm asking this without labs, but fuck it, give me educated broscience y'all.

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22 minutes ago, D-termine said:

What substrate does DHEA convert into if you don't mind? 

 

DHEA is an adrenal hormone that converts into androstenedione, testosterone and estradiol and other estrogens. Here's the pathways:

 

sex_hormone_conversion_chart.jpg

 

 

Hcg will function as artificial LH and will stimulate the testes to produce testosterone but is not useful for recovery because it will just keep you shutdown. It is useful on-cycle only.

 

Testicular volume is a pretty decent measure of recovery but hard to measure accurately. Nocturnal erections/morning wood is also a good sign but sexual function and T levels don't correspond all that well. 

 

You really need bloodwork. A hormone panel from Private MD labs is about $50 with coupon.

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19 minutes ago, STENDEC said:

 

DHEA is an adrenal hormone that converts into androstenedione, testosterone and estradiol and other estrogens. Here's the pathways:

 

sex_hormone_conversion_chart.jpg

 

 

Hcg will function as artificial LH and will stimulate the testes to produce testosterone but is not useful for recovery because it will just keep you shutdown. It is useful on-cycle only.

 

You really need bloodwork. A hormone panel from Private MD labs is about $50 with coupon.

 

Thanks brother, I love me a good flowchart. HCG was only used up until I finished my dbol.

 

I ran dbol @ 20mg/day from 11/9 - 11/25.

I had my last shot of 125mg test cyp on 11/9, previous shot was 250mg on 9/27. 

I was running hCG @ ~250iu EOD through the end of summer into the beginning of fall, stopped for a month or so, and then started up consistently at the beginning of October when I decided to get off test.

 

I actually just wrapped a workout, pulled out my notes and figured I'd just post it up. This is the cover sheet on a thick stack of notes ranging back to '05 and my first cycle of 1AD & 4AD.

 

And THANK YOU for the link, I have a bunch of sites bookmarked for a range of blood, stool and saliva samples, but I like recommendations even more. $50 ain't bad, and I know a young lady reading this thread that would actually love to pay for it ;)

20171230_192728.jpg

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So yeah, body weight has actually remained really stable since getting off stimulants. I was 176lbs tnite, lowest I got was 170lbs, but that was w fasting involved.  Question, any chance I'm recovered and that is why I was getting symptoms of low E? Or do SERMS not cause that symptom since they aren't lowering E, just blocking it?

 

The whole reason I got off in the first place was I realized it had been 5 weeks since I last had a tiny shot of 250mg and was asymptomatic and having to explain to my good friend, who was good and drunk and loved coke more than someone his age should, why I was using steroids. Something about having to explain to a drunk why my drug use was okay put shit in perspective.

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On 12/30/2017 at 10:45 PM, D-termine said:

Question, any chance I'm recovered and that is why I was getting symptoms of low E? Or do SERMS not cause that symptom since they aren't lowering E, just blocking it?

 

I'm not a hot flash expert and there may be other things at work...your personal neurochemistry has been under a lot of different stresses and there's a lot of variables here.

 

What I do know is that hot flashes in men are most commonly linked to ADT for prostate cancer with something like 80% of men undergoing treatment experiencing them and in men, just like women, it is the really low levels of estrogen that seem to be the trigger...in both cases, exogenous estrogen relieves the problem.

 

SERMs don't generally cause them because they don't lower E levels and because they act as estrogen on some of the receptors although I think there is some incidence of hot flashes with tamoxifen which is a pure receptor antagonist.

 

Another OTC approach would be progesterone cream. Progesterone relieves hot flashes in women pretty reliably. Start with a low dose, 8-10mg and work your way up.

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HCG will keep you shutdown while using it.  But I suspect recovery from a cycle would be quicker with it than without it.

 

I too get an achey painful feeling in my testicles sometimes during the first couple weeks of a strong oral compound or when using HCG. Basically anytime they are changing size rapidly lol.

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I get achey nuts-or I used to get achey nuts-when I would do any hormones and the atrophy would start. Now that I've been on TRT for almost 5 years, they don't get sore, though they will atrophy if I don't use HCG.

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On 12/31/2017 at 4:21 AM, STENDEC said:

 

I'm not a hot flash expert and there may be other things at work...your personal neurochemistry has been under a lot of different stresses and there's a lot of variables here.

 

What I do know is that hot flashes in men are most commonly linked to ADT for prostate cancer with something like 80% of men undergoing treatment experiencing them and in men, just like women, it is the really low levels of estrogen that seem to be the trigger...in both cases, exogenous estrogen relieves the problem.

 

SERMs don't generally cause them because they don't lower E levels and because they act as estrogen on some of the receptors although I think there is some incidence of hot flashes with tamoxifen which is a pure receptor antagonist.

 

Another OTC approach would be progesterone cream. Progesterone relieves hot flashes in women pretty reliably. Start with a low dose, 8-10mg and work your way up.

So the hot flashes and night sweating subsided, and I've been working hard at not eating for 2 to 3 hours before bed which seems to help. The thing they remind me of most is going to bed with alcohol in my system while on anabolics, it's like your body is already burning it off and you don't get to sleep well because of it.

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About to grab some DHEA, I know I keep saying that but I'm literally going to get it now. I will check out the fenugreek as well, it's funny the girl I'm seeing right now, we haven't seen each other in a decade. But she remembers me smelling like pancakes. Wondering if that's the one time I took fenugreek LOL.

 

And I take it 7-keto DHEA is not the same as DHEA?

 

 

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3 hours ago, STENDEC said:

 

No. You want plain old DHEA...you can get it at any Walgreens.

 

Started 50mg DHEA last night, and 1g of fenugreek if memory serves me.

 

What are your thoughts on exogenous pregnenolone? Was right next to the DHEA, but I figured there's a reason no one has recommended it. Guessing it's not as simple as filling in the blanks on that flowchart..

 

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