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John250

Proper CBD dosage?

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To be fair, I have only read the abstract for the following since I'm at home, but I just came across this...

 

Low dose CBD synergizes with THC, particularly in drug-naive individuals, while high dose CBD counteracts the intoxicating effects of THC:

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00406-019-00978-2

 

A randomised controlled trial of vaporised Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol and cannabidiol alone and in combination in frequent and infrequent cannabis users: acute intoxication effects

Nadia SolowijEmail authorSamantha BroydLisa-marie GreenwoodHendrika van HellDave MartelozzoKuna RuebJuanita ToddZheng LiuPeter GalettisJennifer MartinRobin MurrayAlison JonesPatricia T. MichieRodney Croft
First Online: 19 January 2019

Abstract
Access to cannabis and cannabinoid products is increasing worldwide for recreational and medicinal use. Two primary compounds within cannabis plant matter, Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and cannabidiol (CBD), are both psychoactive, but only THC is considered intoxicating. There is significant interest in potential therapeutic properties of these cannabinoids and of CBD in particular. Some research has suggested that CBD may ameliorate adverse effects of THC, but this may be dose dependent as other evidence suggests possible potentiating effects of THC by low doses of CBD. We conducted a randomised placebo controlled trial to examine the acute effects of these compounds alone and in combination when administered by vaporisation to frequent and infrequent cannabis users. Participants (n = 36; 31 male) completed 5 drug conditions spaced one week apart, with the following planned contrasts: placebo vs CBD alone (400 mg); THC alone (8 mg) vs THC combined with low (4 mg) or high (400 mg) doses of CBD. Objective (blind observer ratings) and subjective (self-rated) measures of intoxication were the primary outcomes, with additional indices of intoxication examined. CBD showed some intoxicating properties relative to placebo. Low doses of CBD when combined with THC enhanced, while high doses of CBD reduced the intoxicating effects of THC. The enhancement of intoxication by low-dose CBD was particularly prominent in infrequent cannabis users and was consistent across objective and subjective measures. Most effects were significant at p < .0001. These findings are important to consider in terms of recommended proportions of THC and CBD in cannabis plant matter whether used medicinally or recreationally and have implications for novice or less experienced cannabis users.

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On 1/23/2019 at 7:39 AM, Sanction said:

Having seen the effects of CBD from both hemp and MJ, I would agree that there is a significant difference in effect between the two.

I think some of the uncertainty in this thread is a result of the different sources and constituents of thing labelled "CBD oil"

 

 

Which is why STENDEC made his comment about USP...

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If you're only interested in CBD, it's better to buy CBD isolate powder and dissolve it into MCT oil. Some companies sell this as "flavorless" CBD oil, or some other variation. If the lab tests are accurate and the purity is high enough, the CBD isolate shouldn't really differ from vendor to vendor.

 

Most products marketed as CBD oil are more accurately described as hemp oil, containing a mixture of CB* compounds and some tiny amount of THC.

 

I wonder if there's a 3rd-party testing business model for CBD that makes sense. I think supplement purity is right up there with digital privacy in terms of things people claim to care deeply about, right up until their wallets come out.

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On 1/31/2019 at 9:51 PM, Construct said:

If you're only interested in CBD, it's better to buy CBD isolate powder and dissolve it into MCT oil.

 

Interesting approach.

 

https://bluebirdbotanicals.com/product/cbd-isolate/

 

These guys claim to offer 3rd party testing for their isolate powder and probably some of the best prices I've seen.

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5 hours ago, STENDEC said:

Would vaping CBD be more efficient?

I've strongly considered trying this. Plus, I think it would bypass first pass metabolism, right? Which would avoid the CYP-450 concerns that some people have.

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26 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

I've strongly considered trying this. Plus, I think it would bypass first pass metabolism, right? Which would avoid the CYP-450 concerns that some people have.

 

I don't know if it would avoid all CYP interaction if smoked. I wonder if the different consumption routes have been studied for metabolism?

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19 minutes ago, Emperor G_D said:

 

I don't know if it would avoid all CYP interaction if smoked. I wonder if the different consumption routes have been studied for metabolism?

Not sure. Pure conjecture on my part, based on what folks used to say about topicals.

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It avoids first pass but your liver will get to work on it eventually. I was mainly considering vaping as a way to get enough CBD to do something without going broke.

 

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46 minutes ago, Emperor G_D said:

 

Yes, but that does not compare pulmonary intake vs. oral or transdermal.

Gotcha. I think we'd need to see some info on what happens to drugs that bypass first pass in general.

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I've been running a trial of CBD and thought I'd share my experiences.

 

I bought a CBD oil cartridge on 3/9/19. 250mg/mL from Hookahzz, unflavored as I intended to vaporize my product and I'm not about that oral cancer life associated with many flavoring agents in vaporizable oils on the market. My dosing scheme has been extremely unscientific, but I basically take 3 hits per dose, and dose at morning and at night. I think my hits are a little large compared to new smokers, FWIW, but I can say I've used my cartridge more than 6 times, after spilling half my oil (long story), so I should be using ~25mg a hit or less. 

 

Anyways, I've had a really wild experience with my CBD. In the mornings, I have very stimulatory effects from the CBD. I experience a little muscular relaxation manifested in the back of my head, where my traps insert into my skull. I also rapidly feel clear headed and motivated. These are the two most apparent effects I experience.

 

I've also gone over my dose before. Going over 3 hits into ~5 hits takes me into a different territory where I am more susceptible to yawning or general sedation. At night, I've tried taking this at double the dose (~6 hits) and have felt it conducive to sleep. 

 

I don't know whether a THC-naive person would experience these stimulant-type effects from this dose of CBD, but I do, and it's very welcome. 

 

Here's an article, lacking citations, talking about the biphasic properties of CBD:

https://cbdoilreview.org/cbd-cannabidiol/cbd-biphasic-properties/

 

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btw, a little update. 

 

Ran that cart through the end. I experienced the same effects throughout. 

 

Now, I bought a new cart from Freetheleaf, 500mg, blueberry flavored. I did this because the store was out of unflavored, and I just wanted something to take with me over the weekend that I could use with my battery and not need to bring a bong with me. 

 

I just sampled this cart by taking one normal, longish draw, and a brief draw, in an attempt to dose similarly to my last cart. I did not experience the same effects this time. I dont know if it's because I just got back from the gym, because it's night, or what the situation is, but I feel "affected" from the hit I took. I'm not exactly stoned, but it does feel more like I took a hit or two from my vape with weed rather than CBD. I'm not sure I want to try this tomorrow morning, but maybe I'll just take a single hit, see how that feels, and report back.

 

EDIT: it's now the next morning, and I'm really tempted to say this vial was tainted. Too bad. 

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On 3/12/2019 at 11:34 AM, Growth Factor said:

I don't know whether a THC-naive person would experience these stimulant-type effects from this dose of CBD, but I do, and it's very welcome. 

 

THC-naive person here.

 

I've tried two CBD products now. One was sold as 99+% pure CBD isolate. The other was marketed as "full spectrum" CBD oil sourced from hemp.

 

The CBD isolate product might as well have been placebo for me, at least up to the 100mg maximum dose that I tried. The full spectrum oil, on the other hand, put me to sleep in the middle of the day at the 50mg CBD dose. The full spectrum oil wasn't pleasant at all. I just felt tired, slow, and apathetic.

 

I'm beginning to think that CBD isn't necessarily the main active ingredient in these oils.

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2 hours ago, Construct said:

I'm beginning to think that CBD isn't necessarily the main active ingredient in these oils. 

Probably not the only active ingredient. The latest count is over 100 cannabinoids in that family of plants.

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