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The Sleep Thread 😴

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Trazodone and the mCPP metabolite have a long list of affinities. 5-HT2A and a1 antagonism are at the top of the list for Trazodone.


Trazodone is also a 5-HT2B antagonist. There are some studies showing that 5-HT2B antagonism blocks the effects of SSRIs.


I've been having good luck with about 1/10th of a 50mg Trazodone pill at night. If I wake up before 4AM, I nibble off another tiny piece and go back to bed. The dose is so small that I thought it might be placebo, but my sleep is objectively much worse if I don't take it. That 5-HT2A antagonism is potent.

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For some people trazodone also potently blocks psychedelic effects (undoubtedly via 5ht-2a)

Here's a trazodone story from a mushroom thread. I assume he took far more than Construct's micro dose.



So I go to a shrink, I say: Shrink, Gimme Cymbalta, I hurt and the ads say it helps with physical pain.
shrink says: No. Talk to me for a couple of sessions, THEN I MIGHT give it to you.

So part of seeing the shrink was review of current drug usage.  In those days I DRANK.  I drank until I went to sleep at 2 AM, and then dragged my alky ass out of bed at 5AM to go to work. I drank a 1/5th a night, and I only weighed 160 back then.
In order to try to sleep without booze, I had lunesta.  That stuff is mild and pretty harmless (well, compared to any of the barbiturate, hypnotics, or ambien that could all kill me pretty quick). So I was in the process of tapering the booze, and sleeping via the lunesta.

The shrink did not like it.  He told me to go to trazadone instead.
I say: What are the side effects?
His reponse:  Side effect, shmide affects, you don't like it, you stop.

A couple of nights later I pop one.  And THEN start looking it up on the web.
Ok, grab the nasal inhaler.  No way, I can't use this trazadone ongoing, I'll become addicted to Afrin.

Read a bit more (on the internet).
Lots of whining about bad dreams. But most of it is from crazy people on really high doses (sorry if you're one of them), and it is used as an anti-psychotic  in high doses for them, so all bets are off.
I got a WAVE of tiredness, and dragged by ass upstairs to bed. I was WIPED. I said goodnight to my wife (of the time, no longer) and went to bed.

About 20 minutes later my wife came to bed.  I could barely move. She turned the light on and started bitching.  And bitching and bitching.  This marriage was almost over, and she chose this moment to bring up the worse of everything I did, what an evil bastard I was, and I better just pack my shit and get out.
I freaked out, yelling and screaming, and maybe even choking a bit.
And then the lights went out.
My wife was lying in the bed next to me.
SHIT. Did I kill her and blackout!?!?!!?

She let out a big snore.
She's alive. Phew. Shit. If I killed her then I could have blamed the meds.  Oh well.

Review.  WTF just happened?  I simply layed in bed for the next hour, waiting for her to wake up and call the cops on me.  And then I realised.  I hallucinated the whole thing.  There was no fight.  There was no yelling.  It was just the trazadone bringing out the worst in me, and forcing me to see it.

The next night I did it again.  Maybe it was a one-off.  Bad move.  Stuffy nose again, fractured dreams, nothing as horrendous as the 1st night, but still pretty bad.
The next night my wife had a back spasm and asked me if I had any muscle relaxants.  I told her no, but I had trazadone, and it would knock her out.
I had NOT told her about the hallucinated argument.
She took it. Put her right to sleep.
The next morning I asked how she slept.  She said she was chased by her childhood monsters, horrible nightmares that seemed to never end.

So while my subconscious is working on my failed marriage and accepting the blame, her's is fighting her childhood demons.  I guess one of us grew up.

I had a hell of a fight with the shrink when I went back.  I won.  I broke the shrink. He really hates the internet and informed patients, and he admitted it to me. I told him too bad, grow up and deal with it, it wasn't going away. I ended up working on his computers, he gave me the script I wanted, and I never did trazadone again.


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Love the name of this stuff....it's in the same class of benzo analogs as etizolam which, for whatever reason, never became pharmaceutical drugs in this country.


This stuff appears to have been in development specifically for sleep, similar to Halcion in half-life and potency. It's a regular part of the pharmacopia in Japan and other developed countries, not scheduled in the US but doesn't appear to be commonly available like etizolam either.


Studies on sleep and performance with a triazolo-1, 4-thienodiazepine (brotizolam).
Nicholson AN, Stone BM, Pascoe PA.

Brotizolam, a triazolo-1,4-thienodiazepine, was studied in healthy young adults. Electroencephalographic sleep variables and subjective effects, and performance on a visuo-motor coordination task were measured. In the sleep studies six males each ingested 0.2, 0.4 and 0.6 mg brotizolam overnight. All doses increased total sleep time, improved the sleep efficiency index, and reduced drowsy sleep and number of awakenings. Brotizolam 0.4 and 0.6 mg also reduced awake activity and increased stage 2 sleep. There was some evidence of a delay to the first REM period, but only 0.6 mg reduced the total duration of REM sleep. There were no changes in slow wave sleep. In the performance studies six females each ingested 0.4 mg in the morning and 0.2, 0.4 and 0.6 mg brotizolam at night. After morning ingestion of 0.4 mg there was impaired performance from 0.5 to 5.5 h. There were no residual effects after 0.2 mg brotizolam, but with 0.4 mg there was a residual effect at 9.5 h, and 0.6 mg led to impairments up to 15.0 h after ingestion. Brotizolam is a short-acting hypnotic. In doses around 0.2 mg it has useful hypnotic activity free of adverse effects on sleep and residual effects on performance. With 0.4 mg the hypnotic effect is enhanced with only minimal residual effects.


PMID: 7397057



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On 1/15/2020 at 9:51 PM, ozzman said:

Sorry, you can't use that term. T Nation™️ owns it.


Is T-nation and their forums still a thing?


I imagine Bio-Test is because there's always gonna be fools willing to pay 35 dollars for a pound of whey protein.

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