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D-termine

CBD Source?

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So I've started dabbling w CBD this last week, went heavy on it the night before and day of my first jiu jitsu tournament. Fell in love with the shit. Mixes really well w THC, great for sleep, remarkable for meditation and it calms my anxiety down like nobodies business. And it helped me get of kratom which had helped me get off stimulants. So it's a bit of a godsend. Only issue is price. 

 

Picked up a gram for $60 locally, blew threw that in a few days, and now I'm onto some water soluble CBD/curcumin mix I picked up from a coworker. 500mg for $60, but water soluble is supposed to have a much higher bioavailability. 

 

That said, still feel like there's better options price wise out there. Anyone have a good source they wanna share? 

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7 hours ago, D-termine said:

So I've started dabbling w CBD this last week, went heavy on it the night before and day of my first jiu jitsu tournament. Fell in love with the shit. Mixes really well w THC, great for sleep, remarkable for meditation and it calms my anxiety down like nobodies business. And it helped me get of kratom which had helped me get off stimulants. So it's a bit of a godsend. Only issue is price. 

 

Picked up a gram for $60 locally, blew threw that in a few days, and now I'm onto some water soluble CBD/curcumin mix I picked up from a coworker. 500mg for $60, but water soluble is supposed to have a much higher bioavailability. 

 

That said, still feel like there's better options price wise out there. Anyone have a good source they wanna share? 

You should look into hemp flower. It can be ~20% CBD, and the price is usually around $70/oz in my area. So that's roughly ~$70/5g CBD

 

Unfortunately CBD is pretty expensive for sleep purposes. You only need around 15-25mg for anxiety, though. 

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I've been experimenting with CBD for a month or two, now. Oral CBD seems effective, but doesn't have a very discernible effect. Most of those CBD sources end up being hemp oils. My wife takes it and her bitchiness in stressful situations can be held off with it.

 

Smokable CBD oils OTOH, that has a most discernible effect at 8:1 (CBD:THC). Not a headchange, exactly, but a definite calming for me. I only need one deep hit or 2 shallower hits and I'm good. My cartridge is lasting a pretty long while at my current usage.

 

I picked up a THC cartridge as well. That's a whole other experience from smoking weed. So intense and so quick. The first time I took a hit, I was unprepared for that. lol

 

Kelsey, just go to your local dispensary, man. I know you guys have them.  My stuff was delivered to me by a smiling millennial in a smart car. What a world we live in...

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If you're looking for pure CBD isolate (THC free): 

 

https://bluebirdbotanicals.com/product/cbd-isolate/

or

https://www.fullyactivated.net/collections/cbd-isolate/products/pure-cbd-isolate-99-98?variant=1564057763849

 

Dissolve in MCT oil to make your own pure CBD oil. I don't know about the hemp oil varieties, though.

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I was looking at this mess the other day. Every random store I pass has little signs out by the street announcing they sell the stuff.

I must admit I feel hesitant because if a personal stigma I didn't realize I had. Call it anything other than pot-related and it would just be another supplement. 

 

So my half our on the interwebs brought me to one major issue. I can't find anything I trust as reliable that describes what (if anything) this stuff should do if I were to take it. 

 

Ignoring costs, it may be plausible it could be a safer alternative than NSAIDS for general pain relief? 

The list seems pretty long and suspicious and Youtube seems full of people recording their most fantastic placebo high ever which just makes me roll my eyes. 

 

To complicate things, it appears Amazon does not cell CBD, but does sell hemp products which have their own magic claims?

 

 

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11 hours ago, Construct said:

If you're looking for pure CBD isolate (THC free): 

 

https://bluebirdbotanicals.com/product/cbd-isolate/

or

https://www.fullyactivated.net/collections/cbd-isolate/products/pure-cbd-isolate-99-98?variant=1564057763849

 

Dissolve in MCT oil to make your own pure CBD oil. I don't know about the hemp oil varieties, though.

 

I'll have to remember this when I'm running low.

 

As for your comments, @Supnut, you're right. There's a bunch of bullshit out there and it definitely makes things more complicated. I have several months of experience with CBD, now. I will say that it's a game-changer for those of us who have stress and/or anxiety issues and can't quite justify getting pharma-medicated. When my wife is prepping for a day like before we take a trip and she knows it will cause her to stress out, she preps beforehand with CBD and I'm less likely to have to manage my wife's stress and meltdowns than normal.

 

If I feel the physical effects of stress getting to me-heart and breathing quickening, edginess, sweating-I pull out the vape and take a hit or two. It works almost immediately, and allows me to relax, instead of just sitting wherever, on the edge of panic. 

 

Now, this brings me to the anti-inflammatory and other magical claims: We've already discussed that enough, here. These types of effects are only seen in labs at high doses, and I don't really think you will see much benefit from some Walgreens/CVS/Rite-Aid-branded CBD product. I don't even think you'll see that benefit from the ridiculously priced fitness products on the market, and you'll be a lot less flush with cash after you spend $250 on a small jar of ointment. 

 

Flower is cheapest, but there are enough affordable vape cartridges and other oil products as well. 

 

The Hemp oil on Amazon...I'd skip that crap, too. I ran across some of this stuff when I began looking for some experimental products and wow how fantastical. All kinds of promises, with the footnote of "Does not contain CBD oil". Most of the things they tout seem to be based on the GLA Omega 3/6/9 content, etc. 

 

  • 4 MONTH SUPPLY: 240 total capsules with 25mg per serving (3000mg/bottle)
  • Made in USA
  • PURE HEMP OIL CAPSULES THAT WORKS: Made with enriched hemp extract (25mg per serving) and loaded with healthy fatty acids Omega 3, 6, 9. All of our ingredients are naturally sourced and designed to work with your body and not against it. A truly premium edible organic full powder extract
  • REDUCE ANXIETY - If you suffer from anxiety, Hemp Oil Pills contain an abundance of Omega 3 and 6 fatty acids which are known to be an amazingly effective way to combat anxiety disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, social anxiety disorder, OCD, and more.
  • 120 DAY SUPPLY (3000mg/bottle): 4 Month Supply which means only 3 refills per year! With double the amount of dosage (25mg/serving) and supply (240 Capsules / 4 months) as our competitors you'll feel better faster for a fraction of the cost.
  • PAIN RELIEF - Enjoy the GLA benefits found in our Hemp Oil pills that greatly help to reduce symptoms of pain. Whether it be nerve pain, joint pain, or muscle pain. MixRx Hemp Oil capsules are here to help by fighting inflammation, swelling, morning stiffness and more.
  • MADE IN USA: All of our supplements are manufactured, tested and bottled in San Diego, CA in a FDA registered facility for quality and consistency. We back every purchase with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. If for any reason you are not satisfied with the results we can refund you or get you the right product for your needs.

Bah. It's all garbage.

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On 5/26/2019 at 9:37 AM, Supnut said:

I was looking at this mess the other day. Every random store I pass has little signs out by the street announcing they sell the stuff.

I must admit I feel hesitant because if a personal stigma I didn't realize I had. Call it anything other than pot-related and it would just be another supplement. 

 

So my half our on the interwebs brought me to one major issue. I can't find anything I trust as reliable that describes what (if anything) this stuff should do if I were to take it. 

 

Ignoring costs, it may be plausible it could be a safer alternative than NSAIDS for general pain relief? 

The list seems pretty long and suspicious and Youtube seems full of people recording their most fantastic placebo high ever which just makes me roll my eyes. 

 

To complicate things, it appears Amazon does not cell CBD, but does sell hemp products which have their own magic claims?

 

 

The problem is the research is still so new that it's hard to really ascribe all these effects with certainty until more studies are carried out. 

 

As far as I know, the pain research shows whole cannabis and THC has very significant effects at reducing chronic and neuropathic pain, including in those whose pain is not resolved by other, standard treatments. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19732371 This effect may be mediated by THC's action at the amygdala and its modulation of perceived pain https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23273106  rather than direct antinociception https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18580179 , although biochemically CB1 agonists like THC do affect neurons that send pain signals via inhibition of their activity. 

 

The studies done with CBD are even fewer, and I think these suggest an even lower magnitude of effect than with whole cannabis extracts or THC. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28457055 showed how some patients are just unresponsive to treatment, while some received some relief. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29579828 also demonstrated pain relief in some patients, but with lower magnitude than previously reported with whole cannabis or THC

 

Things CBD definitely does well with is controlling seizures, reducing anxiety, and inducing sleep. It is possible that all of these effects are mediated by CBD's affinity for 5HT receptors. Remember, CBD has an affinity for CB2/CB1, but it is weak. And although some studies have shown synergistic effects with THC, these have been at low doses - at high doses, CBD antagonizes THC. So at best, CBD is some sort of allosteric modulator that may enhance effects under certain contexts and antagonize it in others - but it is likely an actually weak antagonist of the CB receptors.

 

To your point about the miracle effects touted on youtube. There's actually way more to this than the effects of pure CBD, contamination of products with THC and designer cannabinoids, or placebo. A huge contributor are terpenes. If the CBD you're using is pure CBD dissolved in like an innocuous oil or glycerol mixture, then the effects should be like those I mentioned above. But some tinctures are dissolved in a terpene oil matrix. The science is even more nascent in this field, but initial findings suggest terpenes are potent modulators of the endo/cannabinoid signaling network. They may be positive allosteric modulators, negative modulators, they inhibit the breakdown of cannabinoids, and they may even be agonists themselves of CB1/CB2. So if somebody is using a CBD mix dissolved in terpenes and thinks they feel high, this may actually be a very real effect, especially depending on that person's individual physiology and biochemistry. Your epi/genetics and drug and medical history will likely have an impact on your experience with the product, but these things are not pure fantasy. 

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My limited experience with CBD isolate suggests that CBD is extremely weak in isolation. I've tried pure CBD isolate as well as a hemp-oil "CBD tincture" product from a reputable vendor. Both vendors provided COAs, although obviously I can't verify the accuracy of the documents.

 

The pure CBD isolate had no noticeable effects until I exceeded about 60mg. Doses up to 120mg had some perceivable mood-flattening effect that was maybe slightly helpful on stressful days. Effects on sleep were minimal, if any. I couldn't describe the effect as positive or negative, but I wouldn't say that I particularly enjoyed it.

 

I expected the same results from the hemp oil CBD tincture, so I started directly at 60mg. That dose knocked me out. I struggled to find the motivation to do anything that evening. Completely different product.

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For sure at this point we know that a little thc in the mix goes a looong way. I know so many people trying cbd and all of them have the same consensus: full plant is best. My grandma is trying a very low amount of thc% cbd product and says it works better for her pain than all the narcotics she was taking. The cbd by itself was doing nothing remarkable. And, she's not high either which is good. Don't need much thc.

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1 hour ago, Construct said:

Lazarus Naturals for the CBD oil.

 

Did you go for the "high potency tincture"? If so, what was your CBD dose? 

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44 minutes ago, Supnut said:

How long does the antianxiety effect last? 

 

 

For sleep, is it just reducing stress, or actually acting as a sedative?

 

I forget the duration reported in the literature, but IME it's ~2 hours of significant anxiolytic activity that tapers off until you're at a baseline. I also think I have a physiological marker for stress which is a tightness in the back of my head right around where my traps insert into the base of the skull. This relaxes whenever I medicate my anxiety (alcohol, small dose of THC, meditation, etc). I feel this relax with ~25mg CBD.

 

For sleep, it's likely anxiolytically-mediated as well. As far as I know there's no interplay between it and GABA receptors. I'm only just starting to study the orexin system, but I doubt there's anything there, either, but I can't rule it out. 

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29 minutes ago, STENDEC said:

 

Did you go for the "high potency tincture"? If so, what was your CBD dose? 

 High Potency tincture. It was standardized to 50mg/mL. I skipped straight to a full dropper the first time I tried it, so around 60-70mg CBD. Too much for a fully-naive person like me.

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On 5/27/2019 at 7:50 PM, Growth Factor said:

I forget the duration reported in the literature, but IME it's ~2 hours of significant anxiolytic activity that tapers off until you're at a baseline. I also think I have a physiological marker for stress which is a tightness in the back of my head right around where my traps insert into the base of the skull. This relaxes whenever I medicate my anxiety (alcohol, small dose of THC, meditation, etc). I feel this relax with ~25mg CBD.

 

For sleep, it's likely anxiolytically-mediated as well. As far as I know there's no interplay between it and GABA receptors. I'm only just starting to study the orexin system, but I doubt there's anything there, either, but I can't rule it out. 

 

I shall have to play with it at some point. Tinctures and vapes and even gummies aren't a very good form factor for me to take into work. Can I just get pills or tablets?

Is transdermal available? Seems like that would be an ideal slow release for an expected high-stress day. 

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6 hours ago, Supnut said:

 

I shall have to play with it at some point. Tinctures and vapes and even gummies aren't a very good form factor for me to take into work. Can I just get pills or tablets?

Is transdermal available? Seems like that would be an ideal slow release for an expected high-stress day. 

Just be aware that depending on the route of administration you'll have to adjust your intake. 25mg vaped would be like over 100mg by oral consumption due to the vast difference in each's bioavailability, and that's a best case scenario guess. 

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On 5/25/2019 at 3:15 AM, STENDEC said:

 

It is still very early with this stuff as you know.

 

How much are you dosing at a whack?

 

I've been taking around 100-200mg in the evenings, seems to do the trick.  I used an oil based tincture first, then switched to a water soluble CBD/Curcumin tincture from BioReigns.  Didn't feel as much from that and it claims to be 10x stronger than oil based products.  It's a MLM company so my skepticism is soaring.

 

On 5/25/2019 at 8:59 PM, Construct said:

If you're looking for pure CBD isolate (THC free): 

 

https://bluebirdbotanicals.com/product/cbd-isolate/

or

https://www.fullyactivated.net/collections/cbd-isolate/products/pure-cbd-isolate-99-98?variant=1564057763849

 

Dissolve in MCT oil to make your own pure CBD oil. I don't know about the hemp oil varieties, though.

 

This is awesome!  1gram of CBD isolate for $20, 3.5g for $65.  Just bought a gram.  Does it have to be MCT, or will olive oil work as well?


@Supnut check this article out by Ben Greenfield on CBD and every fucking other thing you ever wanted to know about cannabis.

 

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2 hours ago, D-termine said:

This is awesome!  1gram of CBD isolate for $20, 3.5g for $65.  Just bought a gram.  Does it have to be MCT, or will olive oil work as well?

 

I'm not sure, but I imagine just about any oil would be suitable. MCT oil just has that ultra-liquid consistency that makes it easy to work with and measure. 

 

200mg is more than I've ever tried. Did you find any noticeable thresholds at 50, 100, and 200? Or just normal linear dose-response?

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5 hours ago, Construct said:

MCT oil just has that ultra-liquid consistency

 

It is also essentially tasteless....I'm not sure I'd want my CBD tasting like a salad

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