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Kimbo

RPE/RIR > Percentage based training

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=31009432

 

J Strength Cond Res. 2019 Apr 17.

 

Autoregulation by "Repetitions in Reserve" Leads to Greater Improvements in Strength Over a 12-Week Training Program Than Fixed Loading.

 

Graham T1, Cleather DJ. Author information Abstract  Graham, T and Cleather, DJ.

 

Autoregulation by "repetitions in reserve" leads to greater improvements in strength over a 12-week training program than fixed loading. J Strength Cond Res XX(X): 000-000, 2019-Autoregulated (AR) training involves altering resistance session parameters based on the athlete's readiness to train. One potential benefit of AR training may be that training intensity can reflect an athlete's increasing strength level throughout a training program and can be contrasted with fixed loading (FL) where the load is stipulated at the start of the program. In this study, 31 resistance-trained men participated twice weekly in an AR or a FL squat program. For the FL group, the load was prescribed as a percentage of the pre-test 1-repetition maximum, whereas for the AR group, the load was prescribed based on the number of "repetitions in reserve," such that the intensities were theoretically the same (volume was also matched). Both groups showed a significant increase in front squat (FS) and back squat (BS) performance, but the magnitude of this was significantly greater for the AR program (FS: AR +11.7%, FL +8.3%, p = 0.004, ηp = 0.255; BS: AR +10.8%, FL +7.1%, p = 0.006, ηp = 0.233). The AR group was trained at a greater intensity (average weekly intensity; FS: AR 83.2 ± 13.3%, FL 80.4 ± 10.0%, p < 0.001, ηp = 0.240; BS: AR 83.6 ± 12.7%, FL 80.4 ± 10.0%, p = 0.006, ηp = 0.159). The results of this study support the contention that AR can be used to accommodate the increasing strength level of the athlete during the course of a program and that such a strategy is effective in eliciting greater strength adaptations across 12 weeks.

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I was looking for some chatter between myself and @Atlasnow about the toolbags from the old gym. IIRC, they were hashtagging the shit out of themselves for "RPE PRs", and I just thought...bro, if you did an RPE 7 and that was somehow a PR, you're doing it wrong. The RPE douchebaggery was so striking that we started calling people out for their "rest period RPEs" and their "walking to the car RPEs" and whatnot.

 

I know that I've found RPE to be difficult to use, and % is just so much damned easier for me, and when I'm firing on all cylinders, I think RPE and % converge at some point. But most people? Most people don't understand the concept at all, and that's always been the thing I have against RPE.

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It's a valid point. It's often misunderstood, but it's also not something lifters can real feel until they've gotten to the intermediate level. Before then they just have no idea what an RPE 8 feels like.

 

I think that the idea behind using RPE is pretty simple - base your training off of how strong you are on that particular day. It fixes several problems that I've always had with percentage based programs. If you can utilize it properly then I think it's a fantastic tool.

 

If it's not your cup of tea, though, and percentages just make more sense to you, then go with that. I can see someone getting frustrated with RPE if it just doesn't feel right to them. YDY.

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Ditto. I think RPE is a very good buffer against overtraining because it is actually sensitive to parameters like sleep, nutrition and illness, but it requires getting to a certain level of intuitive understanding of what exertion entails for you.

 

People being tools doesn't make the tool a poor tool. Just means tools should stick to being tools and stay in the shed and out of the gym.

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15 hours ago, Kimbo said:

If it's not your cup of tea, though, and percentages just make more sense to you, then go with that. I can see someone getting frustrated with RPE if it just doesn't feel right to them. YDY.

 

I think this was unnecessary. I'm just illustrating that most people actively using RPE are just doing it fucking. wrong. (so fucking wrong, y'all. They literally have *no idea* what they are doing)

 

4 hours ago, Ras said:

People being tools doesn't make the tool a poor tool. Just means tools should stick to being tools and stay in the shed and out of the gym.

 

A fair point, but a tool designed for a few people is largely useless. I realize that as an elitist, you're all about that sort of thing...

 

This is mostly tongue-in-cheek, so take it fwiw.

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5 hours ago, Emperor G_D said:

 

I think this was unnecessary. I'm just illustrating that most people actively using RPE are just doing it fucking. wrong. (so fucking wrong, y'all. They literally have *no idea* what they are doing)

Well, I wasn't trying to be a dick. Just saying that if a war of training just doesn't speak to you that you probably won't get much out of it.

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And I don't think it's designed for just a few people. Seeing some guys mangle it in your gym doesn't mean it's only right for a couple of folks. I think that's it's really just starting to gain popularity, so until there's more solid information and instruction out there you're just going to see that sort of thing. I remember when people were trying to implement Westside-style training initially... Ugh.

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22 minutes ago, STENDEC said:

The whole thing seems impossibly subjective to be truly useful....but I guess if it works for you, it works.

All you need to do is have enough training experience under your belt to know how many reps you have left until you reach failure. That's it.

 

 

chart.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

All you need to do is have enough training experience under your belt to know how many reps you have left until you reach failure. That's it.

 

It's still a lot of guesswork...the decision tree is populated with DEFINITELY, MAYBE, FAIRLY...those are not words of certainty.

 

I've been lifting for 25 years and I don't feel that I could use RPE with any confidence that it was anything close to a consistent measure of my effort but I may be an outlier...lots of people who know a lot more about lifting than me seem to be fully comfortable with using it.

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4 hours ago, Kimbo said:

And I don't think it's designed for just a few people. Seeing some guys mangle it in your gym doesn't mean it's only right for a couple of folks. I think that's it's really just starting to gain popularity, so until there's more solid information and instruction out there you're just going to see that sort of thing. I remember when people were trying to implement Westside-style training initially... Ugh.

 

I don't think it's designed for only a few people, but I think that's how it works when applied. While I used the example of the last gym, examples abound.

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13 hours ago, Emperor G_D said:

 

I don't think it's designed for only a few people, but I think that's how it works when applied. While I used the example of the last gym, examples abound.

Well again, just because some guys at your gym aren't able to implement it properly doesn't mean it doesn't work for most people. It probably just means that they suck at programming or suck at following a program. I've seen lots of examples of people poorly following lots of programs that implement all sorts of different training.

 

I don't see how RPE would be complicated to use. I CAN see how it may just not click with someone, and if that's the case then it makes sense to go in another direction.

 

BTW, not trying to come across as a dick. Nothing but love for you, Sam.

 

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You keep saying "your gym". I'm telling you, there are more examples if you open your eyes to it.

 

You're being a dick and hurting my fizzles. I want someone to photoshop a meme of you and I in an epic swordfight (your choice whether pink or steel) and we can label your sword "RPE" and mine just has a symbol on the shield "%".

 

But that's not what I was saying in this thread. I wasn't comparing % to RPE (each are valid and those who can use RPE appear to benefit more), but just my opinion on how others misapply RPE. 

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Fine. I am OK with the meme. But I insist that instead of swords, it's our penises, and that we're both "stabbing" mwarren.

 

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1 hour ago, Kimbo said:

Fine. I am OK with the meme. But I insist that instead of swords, it's our penises, and that we're both "stabbing" mwarren.

 

 

2 hours ago, Emperor G_D said:

I want someone to photoshop a meme of you and I in an epic swordfight (your choice whether pink or steel)

 

Whether "pink" swords or "steel"...

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7 minutes ago, Emperor G_D said:

 

 

Whether "pink" swords or "steel"...

I don't know how I missed that.

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Damnit I don't know how I missed this thread. Well, it's one of those things where we can all agree that we use varying degrees of autoregulation but the ways we use it are different. I really feel like this is a wording thing mostly that makes us disagree because at the elite level, both schools collide. 

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3 hours ago, mwarren said:

Damnit I don't know how I missed this thread. Well, it's one of those things where we can all agree that we use varying degrees of autoregulation but the ways we use it are different. I really feel like this is a wording thing mostly that makes us disagree because at the elite level, both schools collide. 

 

If ever I want to tempt the elitist in Kim out of its shell, all I have to do is shit on RPE and we're off to the races. lol

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4 hours ago, Emperor G_D said:

 

If ever I want to tempt the elitist in Kim out of its shell, all I have to do is shit on RPE and we're off to the races. lol

Lol you're a master bater.

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