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How to get TRT with normal test ratings?

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I've been thinking of taking the plunge to TRT for a variety of reasons and know quite a few of you here have exp with it. I'm 41, I don't drink/drugs or smoke, train about 6-7 times a week with a high RPE. I've completely stalled progress even though I've switched training protocols and adhere to strict nutrition. I'm interested in it not just for breaking this plateau, which I've been stuck at for over a year now, but for the many other touted benefits, well being, energy, etc. 

 

Last time I had my T checked it was about 650. I am assuming a doc won't consider this low enough to put me on. My questions are do I talk to a primary doc about this, a urologist or an endocrinologist? Any advice on how to approach the situation with normal levels? TIA

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Well, you don't know what your T levels are, so maybe start with getting a level before hatching a plan to "fail" the test? If you are really working out 6-7 times per week, and really doing it with high intensity, then maybe you just burned your hormones out a bit with all that work, some shitty diet and less than ample sleep with the stresses of daily life added on top of that?

 

There are "male" clinics whose only goal is to give every dide who walks through the door a TRT script and as much androgen as they can. Of course, they are boutique clinics so they tend to charge more, and you likely won't have full coverage through insurance unless they have good billers in place (most don't, some charge cash rates and expect you to file with your insurance if you want to get any money back from the visit).

 

All you need to do at these places though, is walk in, take bloods, give them a list of your complaints (fatigue, sadness, lack of energy, poor performance or desire, etc.), and they'll do the rest. A couple places do it fully online. Just pay and go.

 

Otherwise, there might be a skin cream company that I've heard of who sells "TRT" cream...and there are other forums, chinese imported powders, Etc.

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Thanks for the reply. I plan on going to a primary care doc and getting yearly labs this month. By a seat of the pants (morning wood/energy levels/lean mass) I'd guess my test is around 600, same as it was last year at this time. I'm pretty in tune with my body at this point, so I am just preparing for the news it is normal and how I go about gently asking for TRT.

 

I wanted to do everything on the books for various reasons, insurance being a big one. I am aware of how to do it myself but that tends to get me in trouble. That would be a last resort but I will go there if forced to. 

 

having said that I am wondering if I should try and fail right off the bat or if maybe it's normal then going to a specialist (urologist/endo) and failing that test on purpose? I pretty much have decided to go on so I would like to do it in the shortest amount of time possible. How would one drastically lower their T on purpose for a short time in order to qualify for TRT?

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Right where you are today, mid range and asymptomatic, is where most docs are going to try to put you with TRT...no average doc who is not running a boutique men's performance clinic of some sort is going to try to put you up at the top of range....even though, arguably, that's the best place to be.

 

If you are looking for someone to be a little less constrained by ACP standards, Sam is correct and you probably need to be looking online.

 

As we have discussed elsewhere, suppression is far less a sure thing than it's made out to be. Hypothetically, if I were going to attempt to suppress my natural T production for this purpose, I would probably try some high dose OTC progesterone/estrogen cream that can be purchased on Amazon and apply directly to the frank and beans.

 

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59 minutes ago, STENDEC said:

 

Hypothetically, if I were going to attempt to suppress my natural T production for this purpose, I would probably try some high dose OTC progesterone/estrogen cream that can be purchased on Amazon and apply directly to the frank and beans.

 

For the anabolic-minded, perhaps some deca could do the trick as well. 

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Working out 6 times a week with high RPE is a recipe for stagnation. With age we don't recuperate as easy.

Once you get your labs and know fir aure where you stand. Try decreasing the workouts, think like a hard gainer.  Or you could change going from gym workouts to street or park or anything that strikes your fancy. 

 

TRT is a forever road that you have to be serious about before undertaking. 

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Very true. I should back off the training a bit. Also not sure if I want to go on forever quite yet, just know I want to do something about it now, temporarily

 

So it looks like this is kind of a pipe dream to get done on the books. Approximately how long and how hard would OTC progesterone/estrogen shut me down for, hypothetically?

 

I will probably just handle things myself. If anyone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction with a PM I would be super grateful. I haven't been in the loop in quite awhile.

Thanks guys

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Hard to say how long it would take to shut you down....couple of weeks?

 

Your T levels should start to rebound as soon as the levels of P/E return to normal which should start to happen as soon as you stop applying the cream.

 

Bear in mind, this is all a WAG...the biochemistry is solid but I've never even heard of someone trying this particular approach.

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I honestly think reading up on today's hormonal options OTC is the best course for you. TRT isn't magic. I can honestly only get my doctors to make sure I'm in the 300-range, so when you tell me you're most recently in the 600-range, I say fuck you. :D 

 

There are lots of unknowns and risks associated with the progesterone route-including the good possibility that it will do nothing. There are lots of SARMs on the market and they won't impact your natural production very much. LGD-4033 is a favorite of mine and will make you feel like you're on T, so maybe just start there?

 

More info on SARMs in general: https://legionathletics.com/sarms/

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Thanks Gawd, funny you mention LGD,  I had completely forgotten it and just clicked back into memory. How long were your cycles and what kind of gains did you see? Any PCT?

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I have cataloged no specific gains and changes, because for me it was never a long-term thing. I always retain water on it and eventually feel like shit and come off of it (happens on lots of SARMs and shit for me). Adam used to take shitloads of it and would harden the fuck up and grow within a few doses. More notable for me outside of gains is how it made me *feel*. I felt like the biggest fucker on the block on LGD. Better than any injection or pill I'd ever taken before.

 

No PCT required.

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19 hours ago, Emperor G_D said:

There are lots of SARMs on the market and they won't impact your natural production very much.

 

Agree with Sam about LGD with the exception of this statement. I really believe that when it comes to anabolic chemicals, something Patrick Arnold said a long time ago is correct: if whatever you are taking is anabolic enough to build noticeable muscle, it will also likely shut you down. SARMs should be treated like traditional hormonal AAS in that regard IMO.

 

Ozzy is probably on the right track in that for your age, your training volume is likely higher than your recovery capacity....remember the noob advice that nobody grows in the gym. 

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Makes sense that if it works it shuts you down. I'll be getting bloods during and hopefully after. So is the general consensus that a nolva or clomid PCT is recommended? I'll be doing 5mg for 8 weeks. 

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LGD-4033 is mildly suppressive:

 

Hormone Levels



There was a dose-dependent suppression of total testosterone and sex hormone – binding globulin levels from baseline to day 21 ( Figure 2 ). Free testosterone suppression was noted at the 1.0-mg dose only. The suppression of total testosterone was greater than that of free testosterone. Serum luteinizing hormone levels did not show any meaningful changes from baseline, whereas the follicle stimulating hormone levels were suppressed only in the 1.0-mg dose group ( Figure 2D and E ). Upon discontinuation of LGD-4033, the hormone levels returned to baseline by day 56.

 

https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1093/gerona/gls078

 

A 30-day lull in levels isn't much to worry about, I don't think. You could use some clomid if you liked, but you could also likely do nothing and not even notice the lull. 

 

That said, this study shows results of 1mg, .3mg, and .1mg, not 5mg...

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9 hours ago, Emperor G_D said:

LGD-4033 is mildly suppressive:

 

 

 

 

https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1093/gerona/gls078

 

A 30-day lull in levels isn't much to worry about, I don't think. You could use some clomid if you liked, but you could also likely do nothing and not even notice the lull. 

 

That said, this study shows results of 1mg, .3mg, and .1mg, not 5mg...


 

That might be important.

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The patients started with an average testosterone of 550ng/dL and the 1mg/day group had a drop of almost -350ng/dL on day 21. That seems significantly suppressive to me.

 

I also like how they put a discontinuity in the graph between day 28 and day 56 so it looks like recovery is quicker. Would have been more interesting if they had included a couple more data points in the recovery period.

image.png.a9da218191998e1aab63c68f4c4b91f0.png

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Maybe this is why LGD is a better product than something like ostarine. I've taken ostarine, and I had bloodwork done afterwards that showed very mild suppression (from ~484 to ~390), but my gains were quite mild, on the level of the best OTC nutraceutical (IMO Anabeta original). 

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On 1/19/2020 at 6:47 AM, Construct said:

The patients started with an average testosterone of 550ng/dL and the 1mg/day group had a drop of almost -350ng/dL on day 21. That seems significantly suppressive to me.

 

I also like how they put a discontinuity in the graph between day 28 and day 56 so it looks like recovery is quicker. Would have been more interesting if they had included a couple more data points in the recovery period.

image.png.a9da218191998e1aab63c68f4c4b91f0.png

 

Concentrate not on the drop during treatment, but the 20 day recovery to normal...

 

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